Curse

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 13, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Hi, I was wondering if people could criticize my build. My guildies are never all on the same time im on to test. Im just bringing it here because I know there are a lot of experieinced HA PvPers out there.

http://gwshack.us/2641a

As you can see im a voyager fan. If you watch, try and corralate the names and jobs within the team.

Some questions.
1) is there enough pressure?
2) are there enough counters?
3) is the spike enough to kill?
4) are my calculations correct?
5) is it manageable and not too complicated?
6) is it energy sufficient?
7) is the healing good enough? ( I figure with the para bonding a few and the monk having HB, the rit doesnt need to work too hard)

Some notes
1) I figure the ranger can deal with energy so he has the privalige of bonding the para.
2) That para will have lots of energy, so he takes Deep Freeze
3) The rit draws conditions and drops them with Xiko's ashes. Other ashes for self heal.
4) I took out avatar of grenth because it got nerfed bad... Melrandus in for spaming of wearying (which also got nerfed

)

Thanks for any feedback!

CassiusDrehyg · Feb 13, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

My ideas for this are:

Rit:
1) Drop Warmonger's Weapon, change it for something like Splinter Weapon.

2) Drop Generous Was Tsungrai, change it for either Lively Was Naomei or Vital Weapon if the HP boost is really important.

Monk:

1) Lose the hard res (-_-), switch it out for holy veil.

I'm sure other people could post some more, I'm too tired to think at the moment.

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 13, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Warmongers on the ranger isnt a good way to interrupt?

Divineshadows · Feb 13, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I find it interesting that you designed a 6 man build given that HA is currently 8v8 and I fully expect it to remain that way even after the week is over. I didn't look over your build fully, but my initial reaction is Healer's Boon without heal party and glyph of lesser energy makes baby Jesus cry. Oh, and orison sucks by the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyprodimus Prime

Warmongers on the ranger isnt a good way to interrupt?

Warmonger's is a very good skill now. I most certainly would not put it on a ranger (that should have both savage shot and distracting shot on his bar) and would put it on some other attacker in the build. What in the world is forked and dual doing on his bar anyway? Bow rangers do not do damage comparable to warriors, dervishes, paragons, and assassins. Period.

Acidic Won · Feb 13, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Wow. Deep Freeze on a Paragon's bar? Consider Freezing Gust or bring GoLE to help out with SF aura and WoS.

-Rangers bar. Take Forked Arrow out for Svg. Shot. Forked Arrow is way to conditional.
-Dervish bar. Scythe attacks without an IAS? Drop an attack skill.
-Necros bar. He has no cover hexes. GG. Well of Blood isn't worth it IMO.
-Monks bar. Drop Orison for Dwaynas Kiss. Drop Draw Conditions for a different skill. Maybe CoP.
-Rits. bar. Drop Mend Body and Soul for Weapon of Warding. Splinter Weapon would most likely produce better numbers on both Dervish and Ranger.

Overall I'm not a fan of the build.

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 14, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Thanks guys for all the suggestions. I was just thinking WMW on the ranger because hes longrange and he doesnt even have to hit to interrupt.

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 17, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Ok ive changed it a lot. It includes 8 man, but still can run off the first 6 characters. Theres alot more hex pressure and anti hex pressure. The spike is larger (I didnt include the Hammer Warrior's damage at all because It might be that its only 6 man, still if my calculations are right and no one gets KD during the spike, it should be pretty big) Do you think its any better?

Vermilion · Feb 17, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

This build really confuses me. In what format beyond 4v4 is it acceptable to run 1.5 monks? Am I looking at this same build as everyone else? -.-

Anyway, the mesmer is a wasted slot. Run Pd or fit power return on him if you want interruption, and use illusion or domination..just say no to full inspiration.

Theres no deep wound in the build ... Did you read the change to Wearying strike? 1 second additional recharge, aka you bring it if you have a melandru derv. Btw, no one cares that flurry is used on both melee? If you arent running a cg ranger, you dont use flurry. For warriors, frenzy/flail + speed buff. For dervs, whirling charge/Heart of Fury/anything else.

Also, the necro is only somewhat less useless than the mesmer..2 hexes isn't enough. In general you're overestimating enchantments and thats leading to a lot of wasted slots. Expel isn't worth the elite on anyone, take an elite hex with some covers and try to fit a purge signet on someone in the build.

Overall, try to give the build as a whole more focus. Although normally I would probably suggest just not making builds until you're more experienced. If you want hexes, youll want to run 2-3 primary hexers..probably a lower-specced sig of humility with mantra of inscriptions, Idk. Try 2 primary monks or make the rit more defensive also. Otherwise just scrap the build for now, which I would do.

icedwhitemocha · Feb 17, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Yeah I had pretty much written what Vermilion said last night but Firefox froze and I didn't feel like retyping it.

You'd have to change ALOT to make this build work effectively.

Only small thing I haven't seen mentioned so far is that your monk can't heal himself if he's under any physical pressure.

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 18, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedwhitemocha

Only small thing I haven't seen mentioned so far is that your monk can't heal himself if he's under any physical pressure.

what should he bring then? Do you think that the angelic bond para is a good idea? And thanks for all the info Vermillion.

Vermilion · Feb 18, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

One other thing I just want to get out there is that certain things are best done all on one character. For instance, the hammer war has no reliable way to KD himself, or apply weakness. It seems like you want a DPS warrior that can spike, and honestly you'd be best off with an axe in that case. If you really want a hammer war, try devastating>fierce as your spike. Just to knock things down, you might expand that chain to dev>fierce>crushing>hammer/heavy blow, and either way he can pressure and spike.

The mesmer isn't a whole lot better with the changes, unfortunately. Mind wrack is borderline useful in a heavy edenial build, and utter trash everywhere else..and since you removed the fear me and such theres no reason to bring it. Just give him something to spike with though, since that seems to be your focus. (not sure why you have resurrect instead of res chant, but thats mostly preference)

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 18, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Mind wrack is for cover hex. I figure 5 seconds halved to 2.5 recharge is good enough. His job is just using constant diversion on casters. And im getting mixed messages on E-burn and surge. Some say its strong when coupled with MoR but some say its useless as warriors will have low energy and casters can hide theirs. So I dont put it in to be safe. In my experience, I went as ele and when it hit me, it didnt hurt at all. What do you suggest? Is putting purge condition on him a good idea? Its cut down to 10 sec recharge. Is counter blow on the warrior good? Its fast and can help with defence against other attackers. And one last thing. I dont see anymore para bonders, is that because Angelic was nerfed?

Vermilion · Feb 18, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Heres the thing..diversion doesn't need a cover hex. Sure you might get use out of it, but its just a really wasted slot. Also, MoR is best used for pumping out shutdown. Since you just have one of them, you dont need to focus on edenial, although things like shame (on spikes even) and guilt with halved recharges are useful. Eburn would work in your build even just to contribute to the spike, although diversion works for that too. About purge conditions, its not a skill I would normally recommend but you are pretty low on condition removal in this build so hey. Draw conditions works as well.

Counter blow on the hammer is good assuming you can fit it in. It can be useful when linebacking to relieve melee pressure and wanding targets if you're paying attention.

Idk about the para, Im not big on them. Id be more comfortable with a spear chucker with Angelic, but I won't judge if you can manage energy and such with that build.

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 18, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermillion

Heres the thing..diversion doesn't need a cover hex. Sure you might get use out of it, but its just a really wasted slot.

Do you mean diversion is the waste or that mind wrack is a waste? And why would diversion not need a cover? Could not another monk or mesmer remove is easier then? Or is that why you sugested guilt? To hex the other guy so both are hindered. And last thing. Are my spike calculations correct/reasonable? Is that enough damage for a spike or would I need to have the mesmer in there too to contribute to damage?

TheOneMephisto · Feb 18, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Diversion doesn't need a cover hex because there's so many other skills you would rather take on a dom mesmer, and because the cover hex isn't really that useful since the duration is only 6 sec. In most situations, diversion won't even get removed, and most of the times that it will, it is from a pre-veil, so the cover doesn't help either way.

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 22, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Back to 6 man. http://gwshack.us/ccc43

This one has a split spike, initial is 495, follow up is 200. Im sure theres alot of issues, so if you can, point them out for me please.

Im also wondering if the Ele with blinding surge and lightning jav, with the chain aegis is over kill.

MAdnRisKy · Feb 25, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

ok, seriously, wtf is that warrior doing. Do you really mean deaths retreat or deaths charge?, because if it's the former get rid

secondly, lead with a knockdown. There is NOTHING wrong with dev hammer, crushing, feirce. NOTHING, use it

(I mean the whole build is old school, shadow prison works better for what you want, but whatever, if he's supposed to be pressure, he ain't. sorry. get a res sig on him, if you want him as a line backer option speck him as so counter blow etc, if you want more offensive, bulls works, or an interupt.

NEVER, *EVER* put 2 second cast skills on an infuser. Just DON'T. bad things happen. So ditch the enchant removal replace with shatter enchant on the dom mesmer. For this you take out drain enchant, and convert hex, and replace with shatter enchant and glyph of lesser energy, or hell even chanelling tbh in HA (bit experimental I know).

k ele. He's actually fairly sound, but on the spike, don't follow with javelin follow with blinding surge, javalin takes too long to land, but it's cool as a spammer i'll give you that.

Next, monks, well the necro monk and the monk. They need work because they're so all over the place right now. Part of the problem has been your desire to get more dmg in for this spike. Forget that idea, it now has loads from the warrior, the mesmer with shatter and the rest. He's two monk bars that work well together.

LOD infuser

LoD, Orison, dwaynas, infuse, draw cond, holy veil, channeling (free slot - try sig of rejuv, extra hex removal if thats the meta, heal other if you want it, inspired enchant almost works actually but its a bit fiddly insp hex for an old school classic)

Divert hexes prot with gift of health

Rof, Dismiss condition, spirit bond, gift of health, divert hexes, Shield of absorb, channeling, Free slot- again hex removal works here like veil, especially if you switch out divert and switch in RC, more emanagement, guardian is a solid choice. Some like purge sig here, and RC over divert. I find you need 2 purge sigs really, and its a no no on an infuser. Prot spirit is a possible, i don't often run both sb and ps, but some swear by it.

Finally, the dervish. Oh BOY you need to work on him. OK now I see the problem here, you want banishing for the spirits. OK. You want wild blow because, well not sure why actually since you're not a grenths but you like the unblockable nature. You want a cripple, you want a deep wound skill, you want an interupt, you want ias you want a speed boost, and suddenly you worry there's not enough skill slots and too many attribute lines to run, so you switch in pious haste.
Well you're right to worry, but pious is wrong, not sure why? go look at the recharge on heart of fury and get back to me

So you HAVE to run earth or wind with a dervish really.
Here's my suggested bar, but work it out to your style.
Harriers haste, harriers grasp, Wearying, mystic, (these are your two spike skills btw) banishing, melandrus, heart of fury, res.

Now you have speed, and cripple, and you punish kiters and let the hammer warrior train onto them. Just mystic with the 2 enchants is good pressure dmg, and combos as a quick strike spike skill. Yeah ok you lose the interupt, wild isn't really an issue, but you CAN'T run with 3 res skills in HA unless one of them is like a fast hard res, I don't care what people tell you about the alter map new mechanics and how there's res shrines everywhere, there's a hell of a lot of maps without them, and there's nothing than nearly having someone beat, and folding because you missed a res option, or you have a guy you now have to res back at base on a relic map say, and having to alrer your whole strat because res sigs are just too precious, or because you ran out.

there, see how you get on with that and let me know

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 25, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Wow, I see all those flaws. I think im just trying to cram in too much. Trying to fit in counters, counter counters, offense, pressure, spike theres still no focus. Ok thanks very much, ill keep working on it.

Oh and I thought that LoD is a waste because HA was back to 6 man. Is'nt HP+GoLE the same?

MAdnRisKy · Feb 26, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55

no because then you're monk ele, an no chanelling, and I don't reccomend ever EVER running a HA monk without it.

Secondly LoD is efficient if it only heals 1 person, ie yourself, so it becomes a self heal and a party heal in one go. Its crazy good. Oh and its one second cast not 2. So no LoD is the new infusers elite of choice (HA), hell it's the new healers elite of choice bar none, because it frees up so much more of your bar for other utility. Gole + hp, on the other hand really does the opposite.

Hyprodimus Prime · Feb 26, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

I see, I see. Have you taken a look at what I did so far? I think ive focussed each member into more distinct jobs now. After what you just said, would healing touch be redundant? I was thinking to use it after infusing. Oh and wild blow is for stance users, not to mention the critical hit on the scythe.